Lamenting discontinuation of 740b dedicated GPS. Can you reverse that decision?

[computerdoc]

iFly wrote recently "

iFly 740b Update​ We have made the difficult decision to stop building new iFly 740b units. We remain fully committed to providing data services for your iFly 740b (and your 740, 720, 700, 520). All warranty repairs will be honored. And we will always be able to answer questions, fix bugs, and keep all your databases and charts current! " If there were no other reason to lament this and think it a poor decision, it would be this: On more than one occasion my iPad , when got hot in the plane, shut itself down. If I didn't have the 740 running, both times could have easily become emergencies.

"

 

[MDreger]

Just for clarification, I don't think AP/iFly actually built any of the 5XX, 7XX units. Rather they likely bought/ordered them from some vendor. I would also imagine that those vendors don't have those units under construction any more.

I would like to see AP/iFly find another similar unit for those that still want a dedicated unit that was made for the more demanding environment of an aircraft cockpit.

I also like the remote control ability of the dedicated units. It's much easier for me to press a button on the remote, than to try and hit a spot on the screen in any kind of turbulence.

 

[DRRhodes]

There was a post by someone on this forum earlier that indicated that a similiar sized unit called Tripletek9 might be a close match for the 740b. was advertised as a drone controller, It had excellent sunlite visibility. It is an android device and may require additional software for the EFB to run. Might be an option for NMEA output since it has a USB port. 12vdc power. Maybe AP could offer some comments.

 

[BearDog]

iPad is known to overheat. Android pads are not. Why not just sell the iPad and buy an android?

 

[computerdoc]

iPad is known to overheat. Android pads are not. Why not just sell the iPad and buy an android?

I've been iPad savvy for more than a decade. I know its strong and weak points well.
two months ago I got an android phone and I’m not particularly at home, navigating its environment.

in any case, the phones and tablets, iPad or android, have another significant weak point compared to the 740:
They don’t have WAAS ENHANCED GPS.
That results in a minor loss of accuracy, horizontally, but a significant loss in vertical (altitude.)
I believe that is why EFB iFly on my iPad sometimes shows shockingly inaccurate attitude.. which intern explains why it occasionally reports Ridiculous numbers for rate of descent, such as 11,000 fpm.
Related to that I suspect, what is the fact that yesterday it gave me a terrain warning when I was well above all terrain.

if I’m forced to retire my 740, I will seriously miss it in accurate reporting of Altitude.*

Alex
* if I remember right, it’s possible to get a third party WAAS enabled GPS for the iPad… but I don’t look forward to buy and having to keep track of a separate piece of hardware to upgrade the iPad's EFB capability to match what I already have in the 740.

 

[Cobra]

Almost every portable ADSB-in device on the market (including homebuilt Stratux devices) include WAAS GPS, which will be fed to iFly on your phone or tablet if you're using such a device, so this is not much of an argument.

And if you're going to say that you'd be using a phone or tablet without an ADSB-in receiver, then you're missing out on some of the largest benefits of having a tool like iFlyEFB in the cockpit. Inaccurate altitude is small potatoes compared to not having traffic and weather on your device.

 

[potatohead]

I've posted this elsewhere and admit this is strictly my opinion from my own experience.

I have flown with both the 740b and a Samsung Tab A Part# SM-T290 that I bought in early 2020. I would take the Android Samsung Tablet any day. Again this is just my opinion and everyone has different needs. I sharing my experience and decision making just in case it helps others.

I did a lot of research on tablets and really wanted a 7" to 8" tablet since (like many pilots) my Maule also has limited panel space. Apple Mini fit the bill but was way too expensive. I finally settled on the $119 Samsung.

After comparing the 740b with Android, the only benefit I can find with the 740b is the bright screen, but that's was not enough to off set the other Android benefits

The Samsung is faster and due to it's thin profile, I can carry it into the FBO and my house and use it for accessing other websites. I can load other aviation apps and sorry but Windows was never really designed for a touch interface. I ultimately combined the Andriod tablet with a Stratus 3 and found it equally accurate compared to the 740b setup. In fact I know guys using the 740b with Stratus 3.

There are many good tablets out there, I just like the "name brand" of Samsung and the decent firmware support compared to lesser known Android tablets. Build quality is good but I'm sure there are others.

I'd love to hear what other people have found that works well for them.

 

[Flybuddy]

Discontinuing hardware is simply a poor business decision. IFLY EFB with no hardware will join the ranks and have to compete with several other EFBs on the market. New purchasers will generally opt for Foreflight and will erode IFLY's business slowly over time. Adventure pilot has, over time, made their business model one of a software supplier as it is the more lucrative part of their business. They seem to have lost sight as to what attracted their base customers in the first place which was an inexpensive, perfectly sized, dedicated piece of hardware. I live on an airpark where canopy type experimentals are the most prevalent aircraft. The glare is restrictive for tablet use and overheating is also an issue. in short, hardware (hopefully upgraded fast some point) is needed for company stability. Case in point, how many pilots would be using Garmin pilot if they didn't have any Garmin hardware in their planes? P.S. I am one of the original IFLY beta customers who bought into the first 700's that were sold, for some reason, I had to re-register for this forum.

 

[Cobra]

In 2010, there were no tablets or smart phones--dedicated hardware was the only option.

But time has marched on--it's now 2023, and smartphones and tablets are ubiquitous. Adventure Pilot has metrics on what devices are pulling data updates. Over the past 13 years, the number of dedicated device users peaked and has since declined to the point where it is a small fraction of the total userbase. The vast majority of users are running iFly EFB on phones and tablets today.

So yes, it's a business decision. The 740 devices were no longer in production from the vendor iFly bought them from, and from their user metrics it didn't make sense to find another hardware device to replace it. For those users who still have and love their iFly portables, the decision is painful, and AP regrets that. If it made business sense to maintain a dedicated portable device, they would.

 

[Cobra]

P.S. I am one of the original IFLY beta customers who bought into the first 700's that were sold, for some reason, I had to re-register for this forum.

I am also one of the original iFly 700 owners and a long time beta tester. That and a wallet full of cash will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

Like the dedicated iFly hardware devices, the original iFly forum was becoming obsolete and was more of a hassle to maintain than Adventure Pilot was willing to invest in. They considered closing the forums completely in favor of their Facebook page (and even did, briefly), but enough users clamored to maintain them that they agreed to pay for a more modern forum platform if the user community would set it up and run it. These new forums are the result of that transition, and since this platform is hosted separately from the rest of the iFlyEFB.com domain, it requires separate user credentials.

 

[Flybuddy]

Good points but worth bringing up that the reason the dedicated hardware took such a decline is that IFLY was not upgrading the hardware. Had a more Apple iPhone type yearly hardware improvement took place it would probably be a strong source of income. Nobody is saying to diminish EFB or software improvements but keep some updated hardware for sale also. IFLY sells other companies hardware, why not their own? Can't see where it would be a money loser and it might add to a protect the EFB market. Only added the original beta thing so I wouldn't be thought a first time (negative) poster.

 

[check6]

I love my 740 and I use the tiny uAvionix PingEFB (no longer made) attached to the back of the 740 for my ADSB-IN on my RV-8 panel. It is a nice, compact set up. Not sure how I would receive ADSB-IN should either fail.

 

[mcforbes]

"I love my 740 and I use the tiny uAvionix PingEFB"

+1! I didn't realize how lucky I was to get one of the last "tiny Pings" as well as the 740b, purchased @ iFly booth at SNF. The 740b/Ping combo fits my mission (Cessna 140) perfectly...and has for years, now.

 

[check6]

"I love my 740 and I use the tiny uAvionix PingEFB"

+1! I didn't realize how lucky I was to get one of the last "tiny Pings" as well as the 740b, purchased @ iFly booth at SNF. The 740b/Ping combo fits my mission (Cessna 140) perfectly...and has for years, now.

I don't why uAvionix stopped making them. I believe it was designed for their drone market but the small size that you can attach to the back of the portable device (740/740b) make them especially attractive (price wise as well) to us and Adventure Pilot. Missed opportunity for AP and those that were not able to purchase one.

 

[divertim]

iFly wrote recently "

​

​ ​ ​ iFly 740b Update​ We have made the difficult decision to stop building new iFly 740b units. We remain fully committed to providing data services for your iFly 740b (and your 740, 720, 700, 520). All warranty repairs will be honored. And we will always be able to answer questions, fix bugs, and keep all your databases and charts current! " If there were no other reason to lament this and think it a poor decision, it would be this: On more than one occasion my iPad , when got hot in the plane, shut itself down. If I didn't have the 740 running, both times could have easily become emergencies.

"

If they would have told me this at AirVenture-Oshkosh last year I would not have bought the 740B and the Astro ADS-B units!

 

[Alpine Gyro]

I don't why uAvionix stopped making them. I believe it was designed for their drone market but the small size that you can attach to the back of the portable device (740/740b) make them especially attractive (price wise as well) to us and Adventure Pilot. Missed opportunity for AP and those that were not able to purchase one.

Used uAvionix PING for sale on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/256120255196

 

[Cobra]

If they would have told me this at AirVenture-Oshkosh last year I would not have bought the 740B and the Astro ADS-B units!

They might not have known at that time.

 

[divertim]

I'm sure they did. Just like when they pushed the 700 at AirVenture then a few months later came out with the 720.

 

[Don Maxwell]

I bought a small Ping from uAvionix a few months ago. Works fine, but no WX.

 

[MDreger]

Since it seems certain that AP/iFly is not going to have a dedicated device in the near future, I have a few questions.

I presume any of the devices that would most closely replicate what we might imagine the next 7XX be either a form of Windows, Android, or iOS?

Is there a chance that AP/iFly would create a way for this new device to behave like the 7XX devices? That is, something that would boot the device into the iFly program, while still allowing us to exit to the native OS to tend to things like WiFi connection and the like.

The 7XX units ran on WinCe, if I'm not mistaken. Does Windows have a follow up program like CE meant to run smaller frame devices like we would imagine the next 7XX might be, or are they now using the same Windows (10, 11, etc.) found on desktop, laptop, and tablet computers?

If Windows has a follow up to CE, will the current Windows iFly run on it anyway?

Could the AP/iFly team give a list of specifications that they would anticipate as minimum requirements to run iFly for the next few years? HDD size, RAM, Processor types/speed, Bluetooth, WiFi, and/or remote control, compatibility, any other new technologies they are anticipating exploiting.

 

[Don Maxwell]

I, too, hope AP will come up with a suitable replacement for the "portable" iFly devices--the 740, 740b, etc. Here's yet another reason:

Facebook post about flying in hot weather
In case that link doesn't work, or you don't care to log onto Facebook, here's the relevant text:

"104° at Ozana, TX (OZA) yesterday! It was so hot in the plane that my tablet shut down, taking with it my GPS. Happily, I was following I-10 to Burnet, TX (BMQ) so didn't get lost. My son, who is a licensed drone pilot, said that he used to strap an icepack to the back of the tablet to avoid this problem."

 

[Gatormyk]

I, too, hope AP will come up with a suitable replacement for the "portable" iFly devices--the 740, 740b, etc. Here's yet another reason:

Facebook post about flying in hot weather
In case that link doesn't work, or you don't care to log onto Facebook, here's the relevant text:

"104° at Ozana, TX (OZA) yesterday! It was so hot in the plane that my tablet shut down, taking with it my GPS. Happily, I was following I-10 to Burnet, TX (BMQ) so didn't get lost. My son, who is a licensed drone pilot, said that he used to strap an icepack to the back of the tablet to avoid this problem."

If the tablet was an iPad, not surprised at all. I haven't had any heat issues (yet) with my Samsung tablet.

 

[bfreeman]

I bought a small Ping from uAvionix a few months ago. Works fine, but no WX.

Don, is this what you bought? Is there any difference compared to the discontinued pingEFB that others are mentioning here? My plane partner and I each use a Stratus and Stratux respectively, and this looked like a good way to consolidate down to one ADS-B receiver.

pingUSB Dual-Band ADS-B Traffic Receiver - uAvionix

View realtime ADS-B traffic on your Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) app on your mobile device wirelessly, or on your PC with USB.

uavionix.com

 

[Alpine Gyro]

Don, is this what you bought? Is there any difference compared to the discontinued pingEFB that others are mentioning here? My plane partner and I each use a Stratus and Stratux respectively, and this looked like a good way to consolidate down to one ADS-B receiver.

pingUSB Dual-Band ADS-B Traffic Receiver - uAvionix

View realtime ADS-B traffic on your Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) app on your mobile device wirelessly, or on your PC with USB.

uavionix.com

The older PING EFB connects directly to the USB port on the 740b via cable. It's Traffic only, no weather.
One for sale here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/256142613100

The new PINGUSB connects to the 740b via WIFI and is dual band Traffic, no weather.
One for sale here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/256142633483

 

[bfreeman]

I hope you're correct on that. After posting my comment, I looked on the uAvionix page, and the tech specs mentioned not supporting FIS-B. Am I looking at the correct page?

pingUSB Dual-Band ADS-B Traffic Receiver - uAvionix

View realtime ADS-B traffic on your Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) app on your mobile device wirelessly, or on your PC with USB.

uavionix.com

 

[Alpine Gyro]

I hope you're correct on that. After posting my comment, I looked on the uAvionix page, and the tech specs mentioned not supporting FIS-B. Am I looking at the correct page?

pingUSB Dual-Band ADS-B Traffic Receiver - uAvionix

View realtime ADS-B traffic on your Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) app on your mobile device wirelessly, or on your PC with USB.

uavionix.com

A thousand apologies - you are quite correct. The PINGUSB is dual band Traffic only, no Wx. (Was confusing in my mind with Dynon dual band ADSB which I was just researching). Edited my original post.

 

[Don Maxwell]

A thousand apologies - you are quite correct. The PINGUSB is dual band Traffic only, no Wx. (Was confusing in my mind with Dynon dual band ADSB which I was just researching). Edited my original post.

Yes, that's right--dual band but no wx.

 

[bfreeman]

A thousand apologies - you are quite correct. The PINGUSB is dual band Traffic only, no Wx. (Was confusing in my mind with Dynon dual band ADSB which I was just researching). Edited my original post.

No worries! Trust but verify.

 

[Don Maxwell]

Here's Sporty's current take on what to do if your iPad quits in flight. (Probably applies to an Android tablet, too.)

https://ipadpilotnews.com/2023/07/q...ck+++Plan+for+Oshkosh+With+the+AirVenture+App

 

[Dallas_H]

I have an IFly 740b that was used in a plane that was totaled in an accident. The 740b survived and functions normally. I have the box, all the accessories, and will entertain an offer if anyone is interested.