Recommended minimum equipment for running iFly on tablet

[jbeeghly]

Now that the 740b is no longer being upgraded, that device is presumably going to fall further and further behind on features. I would like a recommendation on minimum features for a tablet replacement. In particular, is an external GPS necessary? I do have a uAvionix ECHO ADSB. I know that the iFly app is compatible to the point it pulls in ADSB data from the ECHO, but can it also pull in the necessary GPS information for my own position as I fly? If an external GPS is needed or advisable, is there a particular brand or model that is recommended?

 

[Cobra]

iFly works well today on even relatively low-end tablets, and least for the basic moving map and other non-demanding features. You may start to see performance issues with more sophisticated features, like the EFIS and RealPlan, but I don't have direct experience with a tablet that struggles with those. Even my older tablets from 2014 and 2018 running Android 7 seem to do okay (though the RealPlan solution can take a looong time on the oldest tablet).

In general, I'd guess any modern tablet you'd buy for $200-300 or more would probably run iFly well for many years.

 

[jbeeghly]

Thank you.
Is an extermal GPS needed when you have an ADSB input? I have the uAvionix ECHO.

 

[Cobra]

Sorry; I knew I was forgetting something in my reply!

In general, most ADSB-in receivers have their own GPS receiver also, and if iFly is connected to an ADSB-in device, it will use the ADSB-in device's GPS. If there is no GPS position provided by the ADSB-in device, then iFly will revert to using the tablet device's internal GPS.

I'm not familiar enough with the Echo to know its GPS situation.

Re: tablets, while all Android tablets have an internal GPS source, not all iPads do. If neither the Echo nor your iPad have a GPS receiver, then you would need to add an external GPS receiver to your iPad. I don't use iOS devices so I'm not a good source of information on your options there, but Google can probably help you out. All I know is I've heard "Bad Elf" as one external GPS option for iPads, for whatever that's worth.

 

[Don Maxwell]

Cobra, you're right about the ADS-B having its own GPS. I'd forgotten that. Nevertheless, I prefer having internal GPS in the tablet because it's a cheap and simple backup for when ADSB goes pffft!

 

[jbeeghly]

Thanks. I'll have to contact uAvionix about the ECHO capabilities. It does have an external GPS module, but the connection for ADSB in is through wi-fi or blue tooth, (as opposed to hardwire to the transponder.) I'm not sure either would be robust enough to provide full time GPS for iFly

 

[Don Maxwell]

Um, my uAvionix EchoUAT has its own GPS and its own WiFi router. It is NOT hardwired to the transponder. Instead, it receives the transponder's transmission as a radio signal and adds the ADS-B data to it, then transmits the combined data as ADS-B out. It's very elegant.

I don't know how many wifi connections it can handle, but mine routinely connects to iFly 740 or 740b AND to my iPad Mini 6 AND to my iPhone 14 Max Pro. (I think it also allows two iFly devices to share flightplans also, but am not sure and haven't yet experimented with that.)

 

[Don Norris]

I've been using iFly since the 720, and on an iPad mini and four different Android devices. I've learned that the internal GPS in the Apple and Android devices are not as accurate as an external GPS with WAAS. The wireless connection to the tablet has been rock solid and has not presented any problems. I'm still using the Garmin GLO external GPS that I bought 8 or 9 years ago.

 

[jbeeghly]

Um, my uAvionix EchoUAT has its own GPS and its own WiFi router. It is NOT hardwired to the transponder. Instead, it receives the transponder's transmission as a radio signal and adds the ADS-B data to it, then transmits the combined data as ADS-B out. It's very elegant.

I don't know how many wifi connections it can handle, but mine routinely connects to iFly 740 or 740b AND to my iPad Mini 6 AND to my iPhone 14 Max Pro. (I think it also allows two iFly devices to share flightplans also, but am not sure and haven't yet experimented with that.)

Yes, the ECHO can connect to transponder via hard wire or wirelessly, and I know the ECHO has good wi-fi capability. Mine has an external GPS and sends ADSB IN data to my 740b without difficulty. I am just not sure if the ECHO specifically sends all the GPS data needed for a moving map (as opposed to just the ADSB IN data) to the device running iFly and whether a tablet without GPS running iFly would work with just the ECHO input. My 740b has an internal GPS and can hook up to an external, which I've never needed. It worked fine before I had the ECHO, so I guess I don't really know if it is currently running off its internal GPS or from GPS data relayed by the ECHO. I have an Android phone, but it also has an internal GPS, so it would not be a suitable test device.

 

[Cobra]

Yes, the ECHO can connect to transponder via hard wire or wirelessly, and I know the ECHO has good wi-fi capability. Mine has an external GPS and sends ADSB IN data to my 740b without difficulty. I am just not sure if the ECHO specifically sends all the GPS data needed for a moving map (as opposed to just the ADSB IN data) to the device running iFly and whether a tablet without GPS running iFly would work with just the ECHO input. My 740b has an internal GPS and can hook up to an external, which I've never needed. It worked fine before I had the ECHO, so I guess I don't really know if it is currently running off its internal GPS or from GPS data relayed by the ECHO. I have an Android phone, but it also has an internal GPS, so it would not be a suitable test device.

The 740b, like iFly running on a tablet, will "prefer" the GPS data provided by an external ADSB-in source. So your 740b has been using your ECHO GPS all this time and you didn't know it.

Tablets work fine the same way. ADSB devices are usually mounted/located to ensure their antennas have good views of the sky (for GPS) and ground (for ADSB), whereas 740s and tablets are usually on a yoke, or a knee, or a panel, or somewhere else in the cockpit--but rarely mounted right in a window where the antennas have the best view. Thus, iFly assumes an ADSB device will have a better GPS signal than the local device and "prefers" it if it's available. If an external GPS source isn't available, then iFly will use the GPS built-in to the device it's running on (assuming it has GPS...not all iPads do, for instance).

You can tell at a glance whether iFly is using the internal or external GPS signal. Make sure that the "GPS Status" is part of your current instrument layout, then take a look at it: If it has multiple green "signal bars", it's using the internal GPS source. If it says "ADSB" and has a single green bar, then it's using the external (ADSB device) GPS. (And if the external source uses WAAS, you'll see blue "WAAS" text above the ADS-B label in the instrument.

Using internal GPS:

Using external GPS:

 

[bfreeman]

iFly works well today on even relatively low-end tablets, and least for the basic moving map and other non-demanding features. You may start to see performance issues with more sophisticated features, like the EFIS and RealPlan, but I don't have direct experience with a tablet that struggles with those. Even my older tablets from 2014 and 2018 running Android 7 seem to do okay (though the RealPlan solution can take a looong time on the oldest tablet).

In general, I'd guess any modern tablet you'd buy for $200-300 or more would probably run iFly well for many years.

I'm using a Amazon Fire 8 plus to run iFly, and it runs surprisingly well. You do have to sideload it, as Google Play isn't installed, but I've been able to use it with relatively few issues.

 

[jbeeghly]

The 740b, like iFly running on a tablet, will "prefer" the GPS data provided by an external ADSB-in source. So your 740b has been using your ECHO GPS all this time and you didn't know it.

Tablets work fine the same way. ADSB devices are usually mounted/located to ensure their antennas have good views of the sky (for GPS) and ground (for ADSB), whereas 740s and tablets are usually on a yoke, or a knee, or a panel, or somewhere else in the cockpit--but rarely mounted right in a window where the antennas have the best view. Thus, iFly assumes an ADSB device will have a better GPS signal than the local device and "prefers" it if it's available. If an external GPS source isn't available, then iFly will use the GPS built-in to the device it's running on (assuming it has GPS...not all iPads do, for instance).

You can tell at a glance whether iFly is using the internal or external GPS signal. Make sure that the "GPS Status" is part of your current instrument layout, then take a look at it: If it has multiple green "signal bars", it's using the internal GPS source. If it says "ADSB" and has a single green bar, then it's using the external (ADSB device) GPS. (And if the external source uses WAAS, you'll see blue "WAAS" text above the ADS-B label in the instrument.

Using internal GPS: View attachment 264

Using external GPS: View attachment 265

This was very helpful. I followed your suggestions and verified that my 740b is, indeed, getting GPS from the uAvionix ECHO I use for ADSB (it has IN as well as OUT) and has an externals GPS antenna. I was able to do the same thing and verify that my Android phone version of iFly pulled in the ECHO GPS signal. I think the GPS signal is being transferred by Wi-Fi, though it is possible it is by BlueTooth. Either way, it should work with any tablet version of iFly I run in the future.